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Dweebs' Guide on choosing layouts v1.0
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Ulugulan Offline
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Dweebs' Guide on choosing layouts v1.0
Preamble
To have a new base one has to research MCVs (mobile construction vehicle). Once researched it is absolutely crucial to carefully choose the spot where u land the MCV because the coordinate where you put the MCV, determines the layout of the new base. Often new players don't realize this and go for random placement and end up having bad layouts which is the major reason behind wide disparity in performance of newbies vs veterans. Good choice of layouts improves the production dramatically. In new economy the layout (relative positions of tiberium and crystal fields) of your new bases play a crucial role in determining future performance as a player. Here are a few FAQs about layouts.
Frequently Asked Questions
  1. How can I get a particular layout?
    Ans - Each spot in the map has a unique layout which remains the same until a player founds a MCV on that coordinate. The layout can be checked by looking at the base/camp/outpost at that coordinate. If there is nothing at the spot only way to know the layout is for camp/OP to appear there.
  2. Is the layout still there when one kills the forgotten base?
    Ans - If you want the layout of a particular base you can kill the base and found your MCV on the ruin and get that layout. Note that the layout still remains the same at that coordinate even after the ruin expires. It remains the same until someone founds a base on the spot.
  3. What about getting layouts from camps/outposts?
    Ans - It works more or less the same way as above. Layout is associated with the coordinate. Even if one kills the camp/OP the layout remains same. You can check/confirm this by waiting for a new camp/OPs to pop up.
    Pro tip -- If u had spotted a layout sometime ago and there is no forgotten base/camp/outpost on that spot when u are ready to land new MCV, it's a good idea to wait for a camp/OP to pop up at the spot to confirm the layout still exists.
  4. Can I get the same layout as another player's base?
    Ans - No. A Big Big no. There are many prevalent urban legends in the gaming community that this is possible to do by killing a base n number times, etc etc. None of them are true.
  5. How to look for good layouts?
    One can do this manually of course by clicking all camps/OPs/bases in range and spectating other people's attacks, but this is ineffective. Most people use third party scripts. There are 2 popular ones -
  6. What to look for when choosing a layout?
    Ans - A lot depends on the strategy you are following and what you need at the moment.
    • General considerations - In general keep in mind that U are looking layouts where u can utilize the crystal and tiberium fields with minimal number of silos. The more fields a particular silo touches the better. e.g. A layout with a silo touching 6 tiberium fields is a very very nice layout resource wise.
    • What to expect? - A 6-touch silo layout is extremely rare and one seldom finds them. However, 5-touch silos or layouts with multiple 4 touch silos are more common to find and can be considered good layouts.
    • Pure vs mixed -- A Pure 1x4-touch, 1x5-touch tiberium layouts with good pure crystal 1x5+1x4 layout is better than a 2x4 and 2x5 mixed layout (with same number of crystal and tiberium). The reason being upgrade logic for pure silos is much simpler than mixed silos. In case of pure silos, you upgrade the tib first and then the crystal with increased tib production. Mixed silos are rather tricky to manage.
      i.e.
      [Image: i0oYXb4s.png] is better than [Image: AaPXDX4s.png]
    • Classical servers vs FAB servers -- On classical servers a healthy crystal income from your layouts is important and thus choosing layouts with both good crystal and tiberium output is a good idea.
      On the other hand on FAB servers, good tiberium output layouts (ignoring crystal fields layout) are sought after because crystal income u get from defending against forgotten. Having a good tib income is important to increase the level of the base as you get 30% more crystal per base level increase after the +4 cap on crystal income from Forgotten bases was introduced. And in order to defend well one needs some defense towers which need tiberium for upgrades. So its a feedback loop, u need good tiberium production to have a good defense and high base level, which in turn gets u more crystal by allowing u to go deeper into forgotten territory.
    • A good main -- A good main offense base is of course of supreme importance. So what to look for when choosing a main layout? Three things are important (1) A good power layout -- Free space to have at least 2-3 full 8-touch power rings (accumulator surrounded by 8 powerplants) OR at the very least few 7-touch power rings. (2) A decent tiberium prodcution -- 1x6t + 2x4t silos is great but very rare. Other good options are layouts with - 2x5t+2x4t, 2x5t + 2x3t silos OR at the very least -- 4x4t, 1x5t + 1x4t, 3x4t silos. (Note -- All the silos are pure tuberium). (3) A good defensive layout - Often given very little importance but a good defense layout for your main can help u do very well on FAB. Also very important for PvP'ers in classical servers. What u look for is a layout where buildings can remain in high density and the defense can cover all the buildings, while important buildings can sit deep in the layout.
      Example of a good main --
      [Image: 3AyE7ekl.jpg]
      Note -- Offense repair buildings have to be put at the back during times of war.
    • Ideal support base -- Typically experienced players in play with 1-2 offense bases. Other bases serve as support bases. Considerations for an ideal support base differs on a classical server as compared to a FAB. On a classical server you cannot ignore crystal production. So might have to forgo better tiberium layouts in favor of one with worse tiberium but much better crystal one. For example suppose you have 2 choices -
      A. [Image: PSzTO9rm.png] B. [Image: pmPUgp5m.png]

      On a classic world I would choose option A instead of B, because of the much better crystal layout. I would forgo the better tiberium of option B.

      However, if it were FAB world I would choose option B. The better tiberium will help the base level grow faster and crystal income will come from defense.


(Note - Highly recommend reading this guide too - http://forum.alliances.commandandconquer...?tid=30694)

This is a work in progress and feedback/criticism from veteran players is very welcome.

Thanks for reading
Ulu

--
In game nick - Ulugulan
SiC/Diplo guy for DWEEBS - Dastardly Warring Ecstacy Engulfing Bedlamic Society
(This post was last modified: 10-07-2015 01:04 AM by Ulugulan.)
12-06-2015 12:17 PM
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rhiordd Offline
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RE: Dweebs' Guide on choosing layouts v1.0
This is great! Sticky! Smile

12-06-2015 02:09 PM
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ido.pudi Offline
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Post: #3
RE: Dweebs' Guide on choosing layouts v1.0
Good guide,
I really agree with the confirm your layout part before landing the base(maybe its need to be also bold text) Big Grin
about main base layout - i wont take any base to be main if he don't have 2*8 + 2*7 power rings minimum
12-06-2015 04:51 PM
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DeathMetalEagle Offline
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RE: Dweebs' Guide on choosing layouts v1.0
Nice one Amu. You could also say that having a good tib income in important to increase the level of the base as you get 30% more crystal per base level since they introduced the +4 cap on crystal income from Forgotten bases.
13-06-2015 08:01 PM
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roadhawk Offline
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RE: Dweebs' Guide on choosing layouts v1.0
I have been playing this game ever since beta 2 was launched so a long long time.
I never scout out places for my next base I just randomly pick a spot without a camp base or outpost and I just work with what I get it is much more relaxing and makes you a better player
13-06-2015 08:25 PM
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Ulugulan Offline
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RE: Dweebs' Guide on choosing layouts v1.0
(13-06-2015 08:25 PM)roadhawk Wrote:  I have been playing this game ever since beta 2 was launched so a long long time.
I never scout out places for my next base I just randomly pick a spot without a camp base or outpost and I just work with what I get it is much more relaxing and makes you a better player

I admit it is relaxing - not worrying about the layout. Looking for layouts can be a pain.

That said I seriously dispute your claim that by landing your base on random layouts, one becomes a better player!
(This post was last modified: 13-06-2015 11:32 PM by Ulugulan.)
13-06-2015 11:32 PM
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loky_trafaret1 Offline
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RE: Dweebs' Guide on choosing layouts v1.0
Funny article with pictures.
But it so happened that in this game, everything is decided by formulas.
And this formula is: you need to use 6 or better 7 green fields and these fields have more than 20 green connections to silos.
As for the blue fields and blue connections - it can be very useful on the first week.
(This post was last modified: 15-06-2015 02:05 PM by loky_trafaret1.)
15-06-2015 01:37 PM
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lazoputz Offline
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RE: Dweebs' Guide on choosing layouts v1.0
(13-06-2015 11:32 PM)Ulugulan Wrote:  
(13-06-2015 08:25 PM)roadhawk Wrote:  I have been playing this game ever since beta 2 was launched so a long long time.
I never scout out places for my next base I just randomly pick a spot without a camp base or outpost and I just work with what I get it is much more relaxing and makes you a better player

I admit it is relaxing - not worrying about the layout. Looking for layouts can be a pain.

That said I seriously dispute your claim that by landing your base on random layouts, one becomes a better player!


I too havent worried too much about layouts when founding a new base. Didn't realize that there could be a significant production advantage by choosing (looking for) a specific layout. And as OP says (which I only partially agree with) there could be some minor skill level gain (better player) for some small aspects of the game; but surely it wouldn't affect a player's tactical skills.
16-06-2015 07:43 PM
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Ulugulan Offline
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RE: Dweebs' Guide on choosing layouts v1.0
Just to illustrate how much of a difference it makes, below is a comparison between 3 different layouts. To simplify matters I have only considered tiberium production. In each case we have 7 tiberium fields with level 20 harvesters in each and 4 level 30 silos touching these harvester silos.

1st case - 4 x 3 touch silos (http://cncopt.com/vOYo)

[Image: LUUcNDLl.png]

2nd case - 4 x 4 touch silos (http://cncopt.com/wOYo)

[Image: z2soy4Dl.png]

3rd case - 2 x 5 touch silos + 2 x 4 touch silos (http://cncopt.com/xOYo)

[Image: 5mclVw5l.png]

All 3 cases have the same levels of buildings meaning the same amount of resources were used to get to this point. Notice the significant difference in production levels. In particular, the difference comes from higher continuous output which is determined by how many harvesters are touching the silo, higher the better. Since bases spend a lot of time in move recovery (when package production is halted) it makes sense to maximize the continuous production.

I have not even considered a 2 touches which an expert player will never build a harvester on or try to connect to silos. When u land randomly u can end up with plenty of 2-touches which honestly kills any chance of ever catching up with a player who is choosing layouts carefully.

This is in fact a very crude example. In practice, the silos would be upgraded base on quickest ROI (Return of Investment). The silos in my example have not been optimally upgraded in that sense. But still its clear to see that with a higher production rate the 3rd case layout will have resources much faster and as the levels increase, the gap increases.

In a game that lasts roughly 5 months till 1st endgame, a player with bad layout will always be behind a player with carefully chosen good layouts.
(This post was last modified: 17-06-2015 12:04 AM by Ulugulan.)
17-06-2015 12:02 AM
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ciorex007 Offline
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RE: Dweebs' Guide on choosing layouts v1.0
from w75 onwards layout matters but on worlds started before that layout dont matter

w75 onwards has improved resource gains for bases compared to before
17-06-2015 09:46 PM
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