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The Ultimate Guide to Forgotten Attacks v0.5
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Bruellhusten123 Offline
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Post: #11
RE: The Ultimate Guide to Forgotten Attacks v0.5
Regarding the offense: In my opinion NOD and GDI are two different ways to play the game. GDI's units are a little stronger but they got only very limited tactical possibilities to avoid killing most of the defense for a base kill.
NOD has weaker ground units, but stronger air units. And they have units that allow them to snipe or assassinate bases.
As NOD has an awesome air and I am into sniping CYs or DFs I play with strong air focus and in a team. The "brute force" needs to be done by someone else. I snipe the DFs, someone else brings the bases down. On hard bases someone else weakens it until I can snipe the DF of CY. Some bases I kill on my own too to get ressources.

I did not see much of a difference between FSB and new eco in that aspect.

In defenses there are differences. I think NOD has an advantage on this world. As you get Zonetrooper upgrade very late.

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Worlds: Forgotten Attacks Beta, 100, 107, WCS2015, Firestorm 6, Speed World 1, Speed World 2

Nagelzwicker
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15-07-2014 10:57 AM
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nevermore316 Offline
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Post: #12
RE: The Ultimate Guide to Forgotten Attacks v0.5
Well done Bruel, this should really help a lot of players who will start once this FB attacks goes to alpha and will be implemented on all servers.

What im interested in is the research order.

I think most of us players who enjoyed high ranks had our own little formula for research. We tend to jump around. However, Def really tossed a wrench in it. Often the research order alone will help players out grow many of their peers.

I think the one thing that we've found is, its safer to be in groups then spread out.

Early on with single bases teams that tended to move as a unit tended to move faster and also get attacked less. A single player on a poi would get attacked with more waves then a poi being held at all 4 corners. The distance between bases seemed to play a role as well. 1 space between bases was more effective then 2-3 spaces.
16-07-2014 04:39 PM
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Bruellhusten123 Offline
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Post: #13
RE: The Ultimate Guide to Forgotten Attacks v0.5
Am not 100% sure about an exact research order. The ressources from forgotten attacks were adjusted during the progress of the Beta. Before those changes forgotten attacks were no "extra income".

To grow quickest possible it is better to advance in small groups. If you manage to be hit by 4 waves all the time you get a lot of crystal.

On a next Forgotten Attack Server I would possibly get the wall/tower/sniper combo before most offense upgrades.
But even that is not sure. If I don't have the offense to get in enough RP from attacks I will maybe need to research some offense upgrades again. So I can't set a good research order yet.

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Worlds: Forgotten Attacks Beta, 100, 107, WCS2015, Firestorm 6, Speed World 1, Speed World 2

Nagelzwicker
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17-07-2014 12:11 AM
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Oxyathres Offline
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Post: #14
RE: The Ultimate Guide to Forgotten Attacks v0.5
The "Ultimate" Guide ...

(10-07-2014 12:41 AM)Bruellhusten123 Wrote:  [...]
- Forgotten Boost is disabled
- RP Farming is fixed
[...]

I think to deactivate the Forgotten Boost was a bad Decision. Thus only supports the Imbalance between first rank in bonuses and all others alliances.
And the RP-Farming was fixed to late.

(10-07-2014 12:41 AM)Bruellhusten123 Wrote:  [...]
As a rule of thumb you can rate your defense like this:
4 waves: Your defense can hold attacks 6 level higher than your defense
3 waves: Your defense can hold attacks 7-8 level higher than your defense
2 waves: Your defense can hold attacks 9-10 level higher than your defense
1 wave: Your defense can hold attacks 10-11 level higher than your defense
[...]

If you've enough points in defense, you can use this scale ...

(10-07-2014 12:41 AM)Bruellhusten123 Wrote:  [...]
5.1 First days
You get no real forgotten attacks until the bubbles (newbie protection) drop or you move too deep into the forgotten. I can't tell how much is "too deep". That feature was introduced after our first weeks to prevent players from placing bubble-bases next to POIs to hold them without being attacked. (maybe it was just announced but never introduced)

Lets assume you find no way to pop your bubble before the regular time.
The bubble time is pretty much the same as in new economy. You try to level up your account as fast as possible and try to get the ressource POIs early and quickly. The rush for base 2 is as important as it was in new eco: High priority, but don't sell your production to get it a few hours earlier. Things then change 2 days before the bubble is done. At this time you level your offense no longer. You start leveling your defense. Goal is to have a defense two levels higher than your offense.
Once the bubbles are down you move your main base carefully deeper into the forgotten until your defense just holds the attacks without building damage.

Once you can hold 4 waves the First Days episode is finished.
[...]

I'm really suprise. You can describe the first days.
Yet on another beta world with Forgotten Attacks?

On this beta, where I play, Ultimate stayed far away from POIs for long time.
Harvesting of accounts and collecting research points, could be seen by everyone.

(15-07-2014 10:57 AM)Bruellhusten123 Wrote:  [...]
I did not see much of a difference between FSB and new eco in that aspect.

In defenses there are differences. I think NOD has an advantage on this world. As you get Zonetrooper upgrade very late.
[...]

I think in this game are many differences. If you compare a player with good skills. With NOD he can play much better. I don't mean the points of an account. I mean the possibility to raid bases and to keep alive. In particular, the early game decides worlds.

The reasons are obviously. For example
  • different aggressive behavior of two offensive units
  • variance in range of units (like. Commando - 1,5 and Militant Rocket Squat - 2,5)
  • save repairtime with shield and distraction

Forgotten Attacks supports this superiority.
The GDI defense updates improve it a bit, but the disadvantage will be still there.

But playing NOD can anyone.
Don't follow a men, who has killed his own brother. Wink


Oxyathres

P.S. Sorry for my english. I'll try to improve it. Wink
22-07-2014 10:54 PM
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Bruellhusten123 Offline
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Post: #15
RE: The Ultimate Guide to Forgotten Attacks v0.5
(22-07-2014 10:54 PM)Oxyathres Wrote:  I'm really suprise. You can describe the first days.
Yet on another beta world with Forgotten Attacks?

On this beta, where I play, Ultimate stayed far away from POIs for long time.
Harvesting of accounts and collecting research points, could be seen by everyone.


That was a logical step.
From the intel we had the forgotten attacks were much worse.
we managed to pop our bubbles before the regular time.
And describing the first days is also possible as there is not much new in the first days compared to other new eco worlds. The only difference is that you have to get ready for the attacks once the bubbles drop. When the bubbles are down the differencies start.

If you see that a small camp kills an alt accout base with 21 attacks, what else would you do except making sure you have the best defense/support possible on the day the bubbles pop?

It got fixed till the bubbles regulary popped, but we still expected much more massive attacks.

Accountfarming? I don't like it, but if you start in a cnc world where stuff like this is allowed you have to go with a "I don't like it, but if EA wants it"-attitude.
I think there is no big alliance on the Beta that did not account or RP farm. We did it, but not more or less than others. Everything else are excuses for own failures on the Beta Smile

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Bruellhusten123
Worlds: Forgotten Attacks Beta, 100, 107, WCS2015, Firestorm 6, Speed World 1, Speed World 2

Nagelzwicker
Worlds: 19, 72, WCS

CiC of Ultimate Group / Teletubbies / High Speed

CNC addict since May 2012
(This post was last modified: 23-07-2014 08:37 AM by Bruellhusten123.)
23-07-2014 07:46 AM
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Oxyathres Offline
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Post: #16
RE: The Ultimate Guide to Forgotten Attacks v0.5
(23-07-2014 07:46 AM)Bruellhusten123 Wrote:  We managed to pop our bubbles before the regular time.

I know, but It's sad that any try to abuse every system, to get his own advantage.
In real world it's possible to do "tax evasion". You think any goverment support it?
By the way, who buys Funds with an Poland, Russia, Mexico linked account? *cough*

(23-07-2014 07:46 AM)Bruellhusten123 Wrote:  And describing the first days is also possible as there is not much new in the first days compared to other new eco worlds. The only difference is that you have to get ready for the attacks once the bubbles drop. When the bubbles are down the differencies start.

It was a bit sarcasm. Because your guide is "slightly" different shown, as your game showed. Wink

(23-07-2014 07:46 AM)Bruellhusten123 Wrote:  If you see that a small camp kills an alt accout base with 21 attacks, what else would you do except making sure you have the best defense/support possible on the day the bubbles pop?

The day of falling bubbles, was really terrible. The reason wasn't the count of attacks. Most players underestimated the Forgotten. My warning wasn't enough );.
But the bases are very graceful at beginning of world. You can move this base every few hours.
Jump in front to the yellow-blue-line, shoot some bases, get the POI and jump few fields back to get safe your base.
I think there isn't any problem. Your base will successfully defend against a camp, outpost or Base up to 6 or 7 level about own defense level.

(23-07-2014 07:46 AM)Bruellhusten123 Wrote:  Accountfarming? I don't like it, but if you start in a cnc world where stuff like this is allowed you have to go with a "I don't like it, but if EA wants it"-attitude.

Oh... I think I can't find an official statement, which contains: "Start with many Accounts, farm them, and become the king of the world."
Yes, it is possible to collect all resources of another account, but is it wanted?
Even if is not punished by EA, it is abuse.
The player with most accounts win the world? That shouldn't be the way of game.
I think, to change this, is in responsibility of game community.

(23-07-2014 07:46 AM)Bruellhusten123 Wrote:  I think there is no big alliance on the Beta that did not account or RP farm.

Yes really .... He did it .... , she did it .... , so I should do it too? He could abuse the system, so i need to do it first?

(23-07-2014 07:46 AM)Bruellhusten123 Wrote:  We did it, but not more or less than others.
Much more than me Wink

(23-07-2014 07:46 AM)Bruellhusten123 Wrote:  Everything else are excuses for own failures on the Beta Smile


My failures....

... preserve character?
... didn't join the biggest alliance?
... stay in responsible for my members?
... don't crawl into others asses, to get an better position? (German proverb, no offense)
... don't rename the alliance to "Ultimate Bataillon" ?
... don't farm?
... etc.

If that make me a bad player, then I'm happy to be it.


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(This post was last modified: 23-07-2014 01:00 PM by Oxyathres.)
23-07-2014 12:54 PM
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trueadm Offline
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Post: #17
RE: The Ultimate Guide to Forgotten Attacks v0.5
(23-07-2014 12:54 PM)Oxyathres Wrote:  I know, but It's sad that any try to abuse every system, to get his own advantage.
In real world it's possible to do "tax evasion". You think any goverment support it?
By the way, who buys Funds with an Poland, Russia, Mexico linked account? *cough*

This world was a beta world, it was the best place for exploits and bugs to be researched and found; otherwise they go unnoticed.

The bubbles being popped early was quickly resolved and the members of Ultimate Veterans who worked it out were the same ones who reported it to EA too. I know, I was the one who reported it.

Ex-CiC of The Ultimate Group of alliances
23-07-2014 01:43 PM
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Bruellhusten123 Offline
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Post: #18
RE: The Ultimate Guide to Forgotten Attacks v0.5
It is a competitive game and even though the account farming problem is known for more than a year it is not fixed yet.
There are a lot of easy solutions.
1. No farming of overflowing ressources at all
if that is too much of a limitation, then:
2. No farming of overflowing ressources from accounts where the attacking player is having a sub to or had a sub to in the last month
or
3. No farming of overflowing ressources from accounts where the attacking player had the same IP address in the past like the attacked player.

More radical solutions:
4. Demoishing instead of selling: No refunding of building selling. If you want to sell a building it is destroyed without giving any ressources back.

---

of course you are right: If one player does a bad thing that is no reason for another player doing a bad thing too.

But if you go through consequences than every player who does not like account farming but likes to win has to stop playing the game. It is not necessary that EA states that they like it. If there is an exploit and EA does not forbid it or give some information like "we are working on fixing it" they seem to tolerate it. I don't like to abandon a game like this for a small exploit, so I use it in a very limited way too, to not give the first place to players who just try to get there by account looting.
As both alliances that challanged The Ultimates on the beta did account looting (Die Horde and Tranquillity) we did it too. Would be very glad if it was finally completely banned.

And back to your comparison with tax evasion: Tax evasion is forbidden and you get punished when you do it. That are two aspects that don't fit this game here.
Its not exactly classified as an exploit and I did not see any player getting banned or punished for account farming yet.

A lot of players already asked to ban it, so as EA / Easy does nothing against it (yet ?) the most probable conclusion is: There are positive aspects in account farming for EA.
Account farming is much worse than RP farming. I don't really see a reason why they would fix RP farming before fixing Account farming. It can't really be that a solution against account farming is more difficult.

Quote:My failures....

... preserve character?
... didn't join the biggest alliance?
... stay in responsible for my members?
... don't crawl into others asses, to get an better position? (German proverb, no offense)
... don't rename the alliance to "Ultimate Bataillon" ?
... don't farm?
... etc.

Checklist:
... preserve character? -> yes
... didn't join the biggest alliance? -> yes (made my alliance the biggest alliance)
... stay in responsible for my members? -> yes
... don't crawl into others asses, to get an better position? (German proverb, no offense) -> yes
... don't rename the alliance to "Ultimate Bataillon" ? -> yes
... don't farm? -> three small accounts, thats it.

I guess there is something more Wink
(no its not your skill Wink you got a good rank for the alliance you are in)

Something like strategies, math and diplomacy. Those factors together with a big amount of good players (I would say we got an unusual big amount of great PVE players here) were the "formula" to our success.

My wishlist for world 100:
- Fix account farming of overflowing ressources
- Prohibit multi accounting

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Bruellhusten123
Worlds: Forgotten Attacks Beta, 100, 107, WCS2015, Firestorm 6, Speed World 1, Speed World 2

Nagelzwicker
Worlds: 19, 72, WCS

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24-07-2014 02:36 PM
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TeejLUFC3 Offline
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Post: #19
RE: The Ultimate Guide to Forgotten Attacks v0.5
Quote:I'm really suprise. You can describe the first days.
Yet on another beta world with Forgotten Attacks?

On this beta, where I play, Ultimate stayed far away from POIs for long time.
Harvesting of accounts and collecting research points, could be seen by everyone.

With due respect Oxyathres, Bruell has created a guide that is an exemplar way to play forgotten strikes back, not one that was adopted by the "Ultimate" alliance,

It was one aspect of the game initially that I believe that Bruell got wrong as CIC of Ultimate Veterans and we as "Minions" (P.s. hated that name) got right by digging a substantial territory early on. The merger between our two alliances is what created our foothold in the server.

But this is here nor there, the beginning of our server did not have forgotten resources, so he is correct using hindsight by saying change the defence to higher than offence, accumulate resource and build a strong offence from there on. Grabbing Res POIs are essential also.

And suck up to asses of other alliances..... isn't that what you have done with Die Horde Wink

Apart from this I think this guide is spot on.
(This post was last modified: 25-07-2014 10:22 AM by TeejLUFC3.)
25-07-2014 10:21 AM
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the1nonlyreal1 Offline
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Post: #20
RE: The Ultimate Guide to Forgotten Attacks v0.5
This guide is outdated and needs to be changed. On the newer FSB servers the forgotten attack in 2-3 waves around level 19 bases.
26-09-2014 06:10 AM
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